Growth in Living Systems
Note: Central to David Witzel's inquiry during his check-in on the OGM 2025-11-06 call.
David's Question
"What are the kinds of growth and the perspectives on growth that would inform traditional economics in a more of a living systems way?"
The Problem
Traditional Economics:
- Relies heavily on growth
- Growth as solution to poverty
- Economies robust while growing, fragile when not
Public Policy Background:
- Focus on optimization and efficiency
- Rarely achieves positive-sum abundance
- "Trapped into making things a little bit better"
The Integration Challenge
How to retrofit:
- Regenerative notions (emerging in many spaces)
- Living systems thinking
Into:
- Technocratic public policy
- Traditional economics
The Bridge: Growth
"Living systems are kind of critical. Growth matters a ton to living systems"
But living systems grow differently than economies:
- Cyclical growth (not just linear)
- Growth followed by consolidation
- Differentiated growth (different parts different rates)
- Growth within constraints
- Eventually reaching maturity
The Sourdough Metaphor
David's inspiration: Story of pioneers keeping sourdough alive:
- Sourdough is living
- Growth of sourdough
- Care and feeding required
- Warmth and conditions matter
- As metaphor for economic thinking
"That's as far as I've got" - needs more exploration
Economics as Indigenous Knowledge
David's reframe: "We should think of it [economics] as Indigenous knowledge, probably"
Rather than discarding economics, integrate it with living systems wisdom.
Connection to Klaus's Work
Klaus Mager's regenerative agriculture creates:
- Two revenue streams (food + environmental)
- Mimicking natural systems
- Growth that regenerates rather than depletes
Related Concepts
- Regenerative Economics
- David Witzel
- Living Systems in Policy
- Sourdough as Metaphor
- Economics as Indigenous Knowledge
- Regenerative Agriculture
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